Session Start (WyldRyde:#summit): Wed Feb 22 10:48:58 2006
[10:48] *** Initial topic: An Event for the Ages:  The 2006 BlogShares Idea Math Summit | Tuesday, February 21 10pmEST/7pmPST/ 8pm BlogShares System Time | Program Guide: (Link: http://blogshares.com/help.php?node=80)http://blogshares.com/help.php?node=80 | Today's the Day!
[10:48] *** #summit: Laila hildy andika @jay FriendlyWholesale JoPro Amadeus usrbingeek PattiMay @JustJames woody Andrew BW sarabear Midoribe RWO KebraNagast mattwilliams mysidia %kucinichworldpeace KingGucciArmaniII MMMajor tengrrl JimW Mina MiniChate @IslandDave %Passer sprimal AraTay @GameOver @MrPilot %Jade @SubWolf 
[10:48] *** -GameOver- [#summit] Welcome to the 2006 BlogShares Idea Math Summit! You can find a program guide here: (Link: http://blogshares.com/help.php?node=80.)http://blogshares.com/help.php?node=80. Moderation will be on at all times during the program, but during designated Q/A periods you may "raise your hand" to ask a question by typing /notice MrPilot Q. For general chat, please /join #blogshares.
[10:48] * JustJames high fives jay
[10:48] *** #summit was created on Fri Feb 17 10:13:51 2006.
[10:48] Mina: i saw the back of someone's head
[10:49] Mina: ?
[10:49] SubWolf: wb
[10:49] JustJames: LOL
[10:49] hildy: hello folks
[10:49] MrPilot: you're in the right spot now, Laila
[10:49] Mina: hey hildy
[10:49] Laila: Thanks, MrP  :)
[10:49] SubWolf: I was actually considering doing a shoutcast type thing, but theres not enough time now.
[10:49] IslandDave: next month :)
[10:49] SubWolf: Laila, check your bold setting. There'll either be a button for it, or do Ctrl-B.
[10:49] Mina: lol rob.  just sit back and chill.  you've done enough.
[10:49] MrPilot: yq
[10:49] MrPilot: *yw
[10:49] JustJames: Rob, you do good work.
[10:49] SubWolf: Bah, I'm first up after the intro!
[10:50] JustJames: nervous Rob? muu ahh ahh ahh
[10:50] Mina: bah yourself rob.  you're giddy like a school girl
[10:50] SubWolf: The hard part is gonna be simplifying it enough.
[10:50] JustJames: lol
[10:50] Mina: dumbing it down?  we have brains, man
[10:50] JustJames: you'll do fine bro
[10:50] *** lynn88 has joined #summit.
[10:50] * SubWolf lights two cigarettes
[10:50] SubWolf: Going +m in 7 mins.
[10:50] Mina: one for each?
[10:51] SubWolf: Oi.
[10:51] Mina: :P
[10:51] *** hildy is now known as BrunhildeEsterhazy.
[10:51] Mina: would you like some of my coffee?  it's spiked and damned good
[10:52] SubWolf: Actually I have wine. :)
[10:52] FriendlyWholesale: mmm.. spiked coffee!
[10:52] BrunhildeEsterhazy: spiked coffee? heh
[10:52] kucinichworldpeace: posted a few sample figures here for reference purposes: (Link: http://blogshares.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=9863.0)http://blogshares.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=9863.0
[10:52] Mina: cappuccino baileys and frangelico
[10:52] BrunhildeEsterhazy: i just have a cold drink and unfortunately not vodka.
[10:52] FriendlyWholesale: once i made coffee from sake.. that packed a kick
[10:52] JustJames: yum
[10:52] Mina: sake coffee?  oye!
[10:52] FriendlyWholesale: haha mina
[10:52] FriendlyWholesale: :-)
[10:52] FriendlyWholesale: just poured it on through the cone filter
[10:52] FriendlyWholesale: anywho
[10:52] Mina: LOL
[10:53] Mina: okay
[10:53] mysidia: Heh, I could use some of that spiked stuff..  after hacking on a bunch of perl stuff all day...<eg> :)
[10:54] FriendlyWholesale: yeah.. i hear that
[10:54] FriendlyWholesale: a good spike after a day of computer staring
[10:54] FriendlyWholesale: :-s
[10:54] FriendlyWholesale: that's where i'm headed as soon as i leave
[10:54] MrPilot: ok folks, we've got 5 minutes to go-time, so we're going to turn +m on. You can still talk in #blogshares
[10:54] *** Mode change "+m" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[10:54] JustJames: coolidge
[10:55] jay: mmf fmmmm mm ffffmmm mmfffmm
[10:55] JustJames: how cool is that/
[10:55] MrPilot: quiet you
[10:55] JustJames: lol
[10:55] JustJames: oops
[10:55] * Passer taps the microphone
[10:55] Passer: sound check
[10:56] IslandDave: do Freebird!
[10:56] kucinichworldpeace: #9 #9
[10:56] SubWolf: Quiet.
[10:56] IslandDave: hee
[10:56] *** Mode change "+o usrbingeek" for channel #summit by GameOver.
[10:56] usrbingeek: ha ha!
[10:56] *** Mode change "-o usrbingeek" for channel #summit by GameOver.
[10:56] SubWolf: Oh boy.
[10:57] IslandDave: lol
[10:57] JustJames: heh
[10:59] JustJames: are we there yet?
[10:59] JustJames: lol
[10:59] *** KebraNagast has signed off IRC (Ping timeout).
[10:59] *** KebraNagast has joined #summit.
[10:59] IslandDave: Welcome everyone to the 2006 BlogShares Ideas Math Summit! Looks like an excellent turnout of both veterans and new players. Thank you for spending some time with us tonight, and hopefully, you'll learn some things about the game that you find interesting.
[11:00] IslandDave: For the benefit of some of the new players in the room, let me introduce the operators here tonight.
[11:00] IslandDave: I am a BlogShares Administrator, having worked my way up from addicted player in 2004 to Editor and finally to my current position late that year.
[11:00] IslandDave: Jay is the founder of the power behind BlogShares, Santa Cruz Tech, which rescued the game from certain death after a massive database crash in 2003 forced BlogShares creator Seyed Razavi to abandon the site.
[11:00] IslandDave: SubWolf started playing in 2003, and became part owner and primary coder very soon after Santa Cruz Tech bought the game.
[11:00] IslandDave: MrPilot also started playing in 2003, was chosen to the BSEC in 2004, and promoted to Administrator in late 2004.
[11:00] IslandDave: JustJames, one of the longest-tenure players in the game, also worked up from the BSEC and became an Administrator in 2005.
[11:01] IslandDave: GameOver is a bot, ignore him
[11:01] IslandDave: Many hours of work have gone into tonight, and I hope you will find the information and discussion enjoyable and educational.
[11:01] IslandDave: Before we get started with tonight's program, let me lay out a few guidelines and instructions to make this flow a bit better.
[11:01] IslandDave: Too many concurrent discussions make communication difficult at times in IRC, so this room will remain moderated throughout the event, meaning that only players with operator (+o or +h) or voice status (+v) can 'speak' here.
[11:01] IslandDave: There will be three question and answer periods, as showing in the Program Guide
[11:02] IslandDave: During those periods, you can 'raise your hand' to speak by typing
[11:02] *** GrawlinG has joined #summit.
[11:02] IslandDave:  /notice MrPilot Q .
[11:02] IslandDave: In order of /notice, one user at a time will be set to voice status.
[11:02] IslandDave: When you see your status change to +v, please begin your comments. Pre-typing your text while awaiting your turn will greatly help this process speed up.
[11:02] IslandDave: Once you have made your remarks, please make it clear that you are finished by typing 'end'.
[11:03] IslandDave: Now, to help you throughout this event, we have posted a Program Guide at (Link: http://blogshares.com/help.php?node=80)http://blogshares.com/help.php?node=80 .
[11:03] IslandDave: You will find these same instructions, a schedule, and links divided into sections so that you can access additional information.
[11:03] IslandDave: All links in the Guide have been numbered to coincide with the flow of the summit.
[11:03] IslandDave: When you see a presenter or operator present a number in a form such as #17, this refers to the link number which matches the current material.
[11:04] IslandDave: A log of this event is being posted in chunks for posterity.
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[11:04] IslandDave: Now then, let us waste no more time. Let me offer the podium to SubWolf, who will be presenting the Technical Notes segment of our program.
[11:05] SubWolf: Ok, time for the technical notes. :)
[11:05] * SubWolf ruffles papers
[11:05] SubWolf: Ok, I'll give you some specifics on the setup of our system, so you have an idea of how things work on the back end, for those not in the know, and I'll try to keep it simple where I can.
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[11:06] SubWolf: Our main system is powered by PHP, as may be obvious from the .php extensions on all the files, but the majority of the work is done by our MySQL database.
[11:07] SubWolf: The primary database is currently 12Gb in size, containing about 120,000,000 rows of data pertaining to blogs, shares, ideas, and the users.
[11:08] SubWolf: When Seyed originally created the game, he didn't expect it to grow to the level of popularity it reached, which explains why the database crash came about.
[11:08] SubWolf: (It was actually due to hardware failure from overworked equipment, but you'll see why)
[11:08] IslandDave: #4
[11:08] IslandDave: and then  #5
[11:09] SubWolf: It's hard to put this into non-technical terms, so for those curious, the problem was that many queries involved joining multiple tables together, and when you're connecting lots of data together, the smaller/easier the keys between them, the better.
[11:10] SubWolf: At the time of the crash, the DB contained about 400,000 blogs, and when you try to join three tables together, using urls as the key, thats disaster. Seyed was continually having to restart the database server.
[11:10] SubWolf: 400,000 x 400,000 x 400,000.
[11:11] SubWolf: So, after Santa Cruz Tech purchased the game (and I wormed my way onto the team), we went through a period of giving every blog URL in the game a unique integer ID, which we call BSID's. This is the reason the system is so much faster now than it was before the crash.
[11:11] IslandDave: #6 and #7
[11:11] SubWolf: The BSID of my own blog, for example, is 343,837.
[11:12] SubWolf: The last blog added to the game has a BSID of 8,926,811.
[11:12] SubWolf: Gives you an idea of how many blogs have been removed from the game. :)
[11:13] SubWolf: As the game has grown, the database now handles anywhere from 200 - 800 queries *per second*.
[11:13] SubWolf: About 40% of that is from the website, the rest from the spiders, which continually crawl blogs, run claims, adjust prices, the works.
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[11:13] SubWolf: This is why part of the math summit decisions will be based on not only how successful the code may be in operation, but it's simplicity.
[11:14] *** JustJames has signed off IRC (Connection reset by peer).
[11:14] *** [1]JustJames is now known as JustJames.
[11:14] SubWolf: AlanDean wrote some *fantastic* code for ideas totals, pricing history, etc. The problem with it is that it makes some very heavy database queries, and thats negative to the overall user experience. Everything drags something else down a little.
[11:14] *** Mode change "+o JustJames" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[11:15] SubWolf: Now, sticking to the schedule, at one point, when funds were low and Blogshares was driving us crazy, Jay put Blogshares up on eBay for sale. :)
[11:15] IslandDave: #8
[11:16] SubWolf: It didn't sell, I believe at the time we were asking somewhere around 50 - 100K. Jay might remember.
[11:16] jay: $75k
[11:16] SubWolf: Thanks.
[11:16] SubWolf: Which was a fair price, and I believe if we tried to sell it now (not gonna happen) we'd want 3x as much, if not more. We have some very valuable data. :)
[11:17] SubWolf: Both before and after the attempted sale, we were frustrated by further crashes of the system.
[11:17] SubWolf: Not like Seyed's, his were even worse, but our problem was that each crash of the database involved a substantial recovery period.
[11:17] IslandDave: #9
[11:18] SubWolf: Checking 6Gb (and more later) of table data is a laborious process, as you can imagine every row has to be checked for validity, the same for the indexes on the tables.
[11:18] SubWolf: At one point it was crashing every few days, and we *could not* figure out why.
[11:18] *** JustJames has signed off IRC (Connection reset by peer).
[11:18] SubWolf: Thankfully, we figured it out, and we've been crash free for 4 or 5 months now, I think.
[11:18] SubWolf: Well... from THAT crash, anyway.
[11:19] SubWolf: Further crashes have been much more rare, the latest resulting from a hardware fault, which we're working on fixing.
[11:19] SubWolf: So.
[11:20] SubWolf: BTW, the PHP code comprising Blogshares is currently about 60,000 lines.
[11:20] SubWolf: AlanDean added about 10K on when he was coding up ideas totals, etc.
[11:21] SubWolf: One thing I'll bring up briefly before handing over, is locking and caching, which will be of interest to those proposing new math schemes.
[11:21] SubWolf: Locking is the method of preventing data from being modified during a 'transaction', so that things like share discrepancies, or multiple people grabbing the same ideas, does not occur.
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[11:22] GameOver: [JustJames] "Yo Wassabie Folks!"
[11:22] *** Mode change "+o JustJames" for channel #summit by GameOver.
[11:22] SubWolf: A lot of you know that share discrepancies are still regularly created, so the code isn't perfect. A large part of this stems from Seyed's old code, which had no locking of any kind at all, and my early years of dealing with locking tables/rows, back in 2003 I didn't have a lot of experience with it. I do now. :)
[11:23] SubWolf: Since a lot of our tables use the InnoDB storage engine, we can utilize atomized transactions with rollback, meaning that we can attempt to modify data, and if something goes wrong, we can back up and try again.
[11:23] SubWolf: A good 40% of the blogshares code for transactions and artefacts now uses these methods properly and efficiently. Converting the rest is progressing, but it will take time.
[11:24] SubWolf: Caching. MySQL does it's own caching, but due to various circumstances, like the fact that our data is *constantly* changing, it's not very effective. Because of that, we've created our own caches and summary tables to make pages load faster.
[11:25] SubWolf: The latest one that you may have noticed is caching of the top 100 blogs in each industry. Every 12 hours, a background process runs that fetches these lists, and saves them to a seperate table in the system. When using an artefact or viewing an industry, the lists come up much faster because of this.
[11:25] SubWolf: A case of a 2Mb table to search vs a 300Mb table. :)
[11:26] SubWolf: I think that covers just about everything for my segment.
[11:26] SubWolf: Hope you enjoyed listening.
[11:26] SubWolf: Dave?
[11:26] IslandDave: Great stuff, SW.  This is a very complex system that is database heavy on the site
[11:27] IslandDave: Now, before we get to our idea proposals.
[11:27] IslandDave: MrPilot has prepared a lesson in Idea History in the game.  MrPilot?
[11:27] MrPilot: Thanks Dave.
[11:27] MrPilot: And also thanks to Rob for that excellent overview of the technical aspects of the game. 
[11:28] MrPilot: As you all know, one of the principle purposes of this summit is to discuss ideas and idea math within the game. So what are ideas, exactly? You can think of ideas as commodities (or products) produced by a company (blogs). Each time that a blog in the system is indexed, the votes for industries for that blog are tallied. 
[11:28] MrPilot: About every 15 minutes a script runs that checks all the blogs which were indexed since the last run and determines the top 5 industries for each blog based on vote tallies. It then uses that information to adjust the pricing of industries and to produce new ideas which are dropped onto the market. 
[11:28] MrPilot: Players could then purchase these ideas to build artefacts (which are used in share play) or to invest in to attempt to grow their net worth. 
[11:29] *** HanzBoer has signed off IRC (Quit: Blogshares: w00t!).
[11:29] MrPilot: Since the beginning of the game, there have been several "eras" of ideas and idea pricing. I'll describe them briefly. 
[11:29] MrPilot: The first is the "Seyed" era, named for the man who originally created the BlogShares concept and code, Seyed Razavi. Before any ideas could exist, there first needed to be industries to produce them. Seyed created the first industries as a social categorization experiment on May 5, 2003.
[11:29] MrPilot: The voting at that time was simple and not very regulated. In fact, Seyed was known to have written the first voting script, a script which automatically voted blogs based on their titles alone. Ideas and artefacts first showed up in the game on June 30, 2003, with the first role of ideas being to buy them and build artefacts. 
[11:29] IslandDave: #11 and #12
[11:30] MrPilot: It didn't take long for players to become upset over the power of artefacts over blogs. It also didn’t take long for them to notice that ideas could be very useful for padding their portfolios. Idea production ran less frequently at this point, at times every three hours, with price changes being very chaotic and wide-ranging.
[11:30] MrPilot: Some of the more attentive players were able to figure out the pricing patterns and thus began to make a mint on idea trading alone. The ideas market was debuted on August 9, 2003 offering a single location for idea purchases and idea bond trading in September of that year. 
[11:30] IslandDave: #14 & #15
[11:30] MrPilot: Not long after there was a major database crash and the game was shut down for several weeks. Seyed no longer had the time or resources to run the game at this point, so it was put up for sale in December of 2003.
[11:31] MrPilot: Then, along came a very enterprising entrepreneur named Jay Campbell and his company Santa Cruz Tech to the rescue. Santa Cruz Tech bought the game and database from Seyed, and with a lot of help from Rob Beckett (SubWolf), they got it up and running again - but not without the loss of considerable amounts of data from the previous months. 
[11:31] MrPilot: Once the game returned ideas again became a major part of the game play of most players, so several tweaks to the pricing and production algorithms were attempted. Some having less favorable results than others. Eventually a somewhat stable algorithm was worked out and production runs were increased to happen every 15 minutes. 
[11:31] IslandDave: #17
[11:31] IslandDave: #18
[11:31] MrPilot: Many players simply "sat" on the ideas market continually refreshing until new ideas appeared and were bought. Day trading was a major strategy, with players buying low in the morning and selling high later on in the day. Prices could change quickly in those days, sometimes with dramatic results. 
[11:32] MrPilot: This era saw the entrance of "idea collectors" into the game, or those players who had a primary goal of collecting at least 1 idea in each of the 1,035 industries in the game at the time. Also, buying up ultra rare ideas and bonding them at premium prices was an often practiced method of gaining money quickly.
[11:32] MrPilot: In the fall of 2004, player Alan Dean developed a new algorithm which took into effect new factors to influence idea pricing and production. This was a very dramatic change to the market. Instead of huge daily swings in pricing, idea values were only slightly affected with each production run. 
[11:32] IslandDave: @22
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[11:32] MrPilot: The game shifted from a day-to-day strategy of trading to one that required a more long-term outlook. The race became grabbing ideas in the fastest growing industries, where prices were affected by idea availability, trading activity, and the number of blogs in the industry. 
[11:33] MrPilot: Unfortunately, this new algorithm resulted in a perpetual bull market. The only ideas which lost value were those left sitting on the market, and even then they went down very, very slowly. This unrestrained growth in idea value caused players to put all of their cash into ideas and share trading fell by the wayside. 
[11:33] IslandDave: #24
[11:33] MrPilot: Also, with this incredible increase in pricing, which saw some ideas trading over 1 billion dollars each, raiding became a primary money-making endeavor. This era resulted in our first quadrillionare players, and created the problem of there being way too much cash in the system. Something was bound to happen.
[11:34] MrPilot: Coming into late November of 2005, we hit the great Black Friday crash that brought us into the current era of ideas. Not only were there huge crashes in idea prices, but all currency in the game was revalued on a 1/10,000 ratio in an attempt to balance the market.
[11:34] IslandDave: #25
[11:34] MrPilot: Share play instantly came back into the strategy of most players, and though many players still do trade in ideas, the big money-maker for new players these days is the share market. It's important to note that idea prices are still controlled by Alan Dean's algorithm, which means that in time prices will eventually return to pre-crash levels. 
[11:34] MrPilot: So, to summarize this part of the presentation, ideas began as simply a building block for new players to gain artefacts, but soon grew to become the most dominating aspect of the game, drawing players away from the "Shares" in BlogShares. 
[11:35] MrPilot: Now, ideas are still important and have an important role in the game to play. They offer the potential of fun and dynamic game play which compliments the current share market. 
[11:35] MrPilot: So here's to a wonderful and productive idea summit, and to developing a new idea pricing algorithm which answers the Central Question and becomes the superior model to eclipse all others in our game's history, and which will lead BlogShares into the future with strength, stability, and fun!
[11:35] MrPilot: Thank you for attention, and at this point I would like to introduce BlogShares Administrator JustJames who will give detail to the Central Question of this summit. 
[11:35] JustJames: Thanks!
[11:35] JustJames: estion (JustJames)
[11:35] JustJames: Thanks to Suburban Wolf and MrPilot for the background to the Central Question, the main reason we have gathered here tonight.
[11:36] JustJames: can you tell i pasted that? onward!
[11:36] JustJames: Given the odd history of Ideas through the years, it really isn't surprising that it has been so hard to nail down a good economic model for them.
[11:36] JustJames: They have been building blocks, day-trading vehicles, collectors' items, and slow-growth long-term investments.
[11:37] JustJames: So while you 'listen' to the proposals offered tonight, consider taking notes.
[11:37] JustJames: These two players will offer some difficult but necessary math. The better you understand their suggestions, the more likely we are to develop a solid math model.
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[11:37] JustJames: Think about how Ideas should be defined in the economy, whether they should be single-use objects or multiuse.
[11:38] JustJames: Consider ideas put forward over the next few minutes and offer what thoughts you can after each segment. Consider this a brainstorming session for Idea math.
[11:38] JustJames: Tonight's Central Question: How do we create an Ideas math model which addresses the severe economic flaws of the current model, while also offering room for flexibility and growth which the current algorithm does not allow.
[11:39] JustJames: First to the floor on the issue will be kucinichworldpeace (# 17723)
[11:39] JustJames: take it away KWP
[11:40] kucinichworldpeace: thanks
[11:40] kucinichworldpeace: you may need to bear with me a bit since I have a few comp issues tonight
[11:40] kucinichworldpeace: but to start off
[11:40] kucinichworldpeace: for those who haven't checked out my proposal in detail
[11:41] kucinichworldpeace: posted in the forums
[11:41] kucinichworldpeace: basically I have added in a few additional factors to the current pricing system
[11:41] kucinichworldpeace: these are designed to do a couple of different things
[11:41] SubWolf: #29
[11:42] kucinichworldpeace: first, to offer a more varied rate of return
[11:42] kucinichworldpeace: the former algorithm basically had only about 3 rates of return
[11:42] kucinichworldpeace: common
[11:43] kucinichworldpeace: high priced semi common
[11:43] kucinichworldpeace: 50-100 blogs
[11:43] kucinichworldpeace: and under 50 blogs
[11:44] kucinichworldpeace: by adding a few new factors into the mix, each industry will havew a unique and fluctuating price increase or decrease
[11:44] kucinichworldpeace: the pricing will be based on two terms added in to the current algo
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[11:45] kucinichworldpeace: the first one takes into account the current price
[11:45] kucinichworldpeace: and the number of ideas held by the top holder
[11:46] kucinichworldpeace: the higher the price and the more ideas held, the lower the return
[11:46] kucinichworldpeace: until at some point prices fall even with the market cleared
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[11:46] kucinichworldpeace: the second factor takes into account how many blogs have been added to the industry in the last week
[11:47] kucinichworldpeace: based on a %age figure
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[11:48] kucinichworldpeace: now each one of these terms can be adjusted as needed in order to emphasize one or another
[11:48] kucinichworldpeace: or to increase or slow growth
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[11:48] kucinichworldpeace: that's the basics without delving deeply into the math
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[11:49] kucinichworldpeace: as i see it this would give a less predictable model
[11:50] kucinichworldpeace: which would still not have huge variance on a day to day basis
[11:50] kucinichworldpeace: also, at some point, growth would be limited by the price achieved
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[11:50] kucinichworldpeace: and the number of ideas held
[11:51] kucinichworldpeace: also, growth can be supplemented by adding blogs to industries
[11:51] kucinichworldpeace: though again, not on an unlimited basis
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[11:52] kucinichworldpeace: i think ideally this allows for a balance between shares and ideas trading
[11:52] kucinichworldpeace: rather than one or the other dominating
[11:53] kucinichworldpeace: though i do have to say that a+b *c is always going to be lacking
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[11:53] kucinichworldpeace: compared to a real world scenario that is
[11:54] kucinichworldpeace: I think that's about it for my presentation
[11:54] kucinichworldpeace: the popups are striking
[11:54] IslandDave: Please     /notice mrpilot Q     to ask a question or make a comment
[11:54] kucinichworldpeace: I'll open it up to ?s now
[11:55] *** Mode change "+v tengrrl" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[11:55] tengrrl: i don't follow why one person buying and holding is better than say a team of 3 buying and holding.
[11:55] kucinichworldpeace: it would not be
[11:55] tengrrl: it seems arbitrary (as JimW said) that it's that rather than say the number of people holding or some other measure'
[11:55] kucinichworldpeace: in my algo at any rate
[11:56] tengrrl: must be lost again
[11:56] tengrrl: end\
[11:56] *** Mode change "-v tengrrl" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[11:56] *** Mode change "+v KingGucciArmaniII" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[11:56] KingGucciArmaniII: Thanks to SubWolf, MrPilot, JustJames, and Island Dave for holding this momentous
[11:56] KingGucciArmaniII: occaision
[11:56] kucinichworldpeace: the difficulty is to find a measure which reflects total investment in an industry
[11:57] KingGucciArmaniII: KWP's proposal would seem to favor those with a large and diverse portfolio provided
[11:57] KingGucciArmaniII: fluctuations tendency to increase are as likely to decrease?
[11:58] kucinichworldpeace: large and diverse to some extent, yes
[11:58] KingGucciArmaniII: The definition of "idea" is still somewhat fuzzy. I wish we could somehow link it to "posts". What do you think about this.
[11:58] kucinichworldpeace: but the fastest gainers are going to be low priced
[11:58] kucinichworldpeace: with few ideas
[11:59] kucinichworldpeace: so it depends on the level the player is playing at
[11:59] KingGucciArmaniII: I think the number of posts in an industry more closely tells the number of "ideas" actually generated.
[11:59] KingGucciArmaniII: this is also somehow related to the number of links and crossreferences.
[12:00] kucinichworldpeace: i think the difficulty there is that reindexing skews things
[12:00] KingGucciArmaniII: end
[12:01] kucinichworldpeace: by producing desired commodities on demand
[12:01] *** Mode change "-v KingGucciArmaniII" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:01] *** Mode change "+v JimW" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:01] JimW: Question on the value y in your forumla, the # of ideas held by the top holder...  Wouldn't that actually work better if expressed as a percentage, rather than actual # of ideas?  Or is the idea to drive down the price of industries that have produced quite a bit?
[12:01] kucinichworldpeace: that's something i had not considered
[12:02] kucinichworldpeace: I would have to look at it
[12:02] JimW: New industries would shoot up, older industries would crash quickly, it seems...
[12:02] kucinichworldpeace: the basic thrust was that industries which have the most invested wealth
[12:02] kucinichworldpeace: in the fewest hands
[12:02] kucinichworldpeace: would decrease
[12:03] JimW: I see the point there, but if the value isn't expressed as a percent, that'll really skew things.
[12:03] kucinichworldpeace: the variance is fairly small
[12:03] kucinichworldpeace: or can be made so
[12:03] JimW: ok
[12:03] JimW: end
[12:03] *** Mode change "-v JimW" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:03] *** Mode change "+v BrunhildeEsterhazy" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:03] kucinichworldpeace: a b$1 idea would grow perhaps 2x as fast for a bit as a 1m idea
[12:04] BrunhildeEsterhazy: i've been listening with interest as this is going to have a major impact on how i play this game.
[12:04] kucinichworldpeace: but not much more or for very long
[12:05] kucinichworldpeace: yes
[12:05] BrunhildeEsterhazy: i was just curious about how industries could fluctuate, is it correct that an industry could be crashed by cleaning it out - in terms of blogs? 
[12:05] kucinichworldpeace: that has to be decided
[12:06] kucinichworldpeace: and it would be hard to crash in the long term
[12:06] BrunhildeEsterhazy: correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems like the more blogs in an industry have an impact on price.  and that conflicts with maintaining the integrity of weblogs in the index to a degree.
[12:06] kucinichworldpeace: but potentially for a week there could be a downswing yes
[12:07] kucinichworldpeace: well, that's why we have the bsec
[12:07] kucinichworldpeace: enforcing good votes
[12:07] BrunhildeEsterhazy: I also mean from an Index Manager perspective too
[12:08] kucinichworldpeace: I understand
[12:08] BrunhildeEsterhazy: ie dead blogs and spam blogs... for I am spending hours cleaning them out - far more than are reported.
[12:08] kucinichworldpeace: right
[12:08] BrunhildeEsterhazy: Thanks for that KWP. :)
[12:08] BrunhildeEsterhazy: end
[12:09] *** Mode change "-v BrunhildeEsterhazy" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:09] *** Mode change "+v KingGucciArmaniII" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:09] KingGucciArmaniII: Why should the industries be devalued based on who owns them? I think they should have intrinsic value, or value based on demand. Face it, people want "Star Trek" ideas, not because of "Star Trek"  
[12:09] KingGucciArmaniII: voting but because "
[12:09] kucinichworldpeace: it would be possible to have both a clean and an add positively affect prices
[12:09] KingGucciArmaniII: Star trek" is cool.
[12:09] KingGucciArmaniII: end
[12:09] *** Mode change "-v KingGucciArmaniII" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:09] *** Mode change "+v JimW" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:10] kucinichworldpeace: well, that's beyond the scope of my algo 
[12:10] kucinichworldpeace: kga
[12:10] JimW: Is the change in the # of blogs in an industry a real number, or a percent change?  Big change if an industry has 1 blog, versus 750, and changes by 1 blog...
[12:10] JimW: end
[12:10] kucinichworldpeace: percentage
[12:10] *** Mode change "-v JimW" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:10] *** Mode change "+v KingGucciArmaniII" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:10] kucinichworldpeace: it could be bumping the price to 2x for a week at maximum
[12:11] kucinichworldpeace: or less than that, 
[12:11] KingGucciArmaniII: Does the number of blogs in subindustry count?
[12:11] kucinichworldpeace: but would usually be much less
[12:11] kucinichworldpeace: no
[12:11] kucinichworldpeace: not unless voted into the industry itself
[12:12] KingGucciArmaniII: When are the calculations performed? ie. what freq.
[12:12] kucinichworldpeace: same as now
[12:12] KingGucciArmaniII: can you fill me in on that?
[12:13] kucinichworldpeace: not positive
[12:13] kucinichworldpeace: but I think 3-4x per hour
[12:13] kucinichworldpeace: somewhat randomly
[12:13] kucinichworldpeace: but around every 15 min
[12:13] KingGucciArmaniII: do large trades have any effect on prices?
[12:13] kucinichworldpeace: sure
[12:14] kucinichworldpeace: if you buy a billion ideas
[12:14] kucinichworldpeace: or 1m
[12:14] kucinichworldpeace: a big bunch
[12:14] kucinichworldpeace: it will affect future prices
[12:14] KingGucciArmaniII: I haven
[12:14] KingGucciArmaniII: 't
[12:14] KingGucciArmaniII: seen it.
[12:14] KingGucciArmaniII: end.
[12:14] *** Mode change "-v KingGucciArmaniII" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:14] *** Mode change "+v IslandDave" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:14] kucinichworldpeace: oh you mean now?
[12:15] kucinichworldpeace: not afaik
[12:15] IslandDave: If I read this right, every industry price is calculated every drop.  Your algo is complex, and looks to involve a great deal of processor work and database usage every 15 minutes or so. Is there a way to use your algo to limit the frequency of price calculations?  And / Or, are there values used in the algo which can be generated, cached, and pulled from cache as needed?
[12:15] kucinichworldpeace: the calculations could happen less frequently
[12:16] kucinichworldpeace: most industries could have the # of blogs taken only 1x per day
[12:16] kucinichworldpeace: and still be the same
[12:16] kucinichworldpeace: that would save a bit
[12:17] kucinichworldpeace: I don't know from personal experience with coding
[12:17] IslandDave: ok, thanks
[12:17] IslandDave: end
[12:17] kucinichworldpeace: but although the math is complex
[12:17] kucinichworldpeace: I don't think it is too intensive
[12:18] IslandDave: Excellent
[12:18] IslandDave: OK, looks like a good spot to end this Q&A period
[12:18] IslandDave: There will be plenty more discussion on the forums
[12:18] *** mattwilliams has signed off IRC (Quit: Blogshares: We're full of B$).
[12:18] IslandDave: thank you kucinichworldpeace
[12:18] kucinichworldpeace: sure thing
[12:18] kucinichworldpeace: ty you all, also
[12:18] IslandDave: great questions folks
[12:18] IslandDave: Now
[12:19] IslandDave: Next, welcome Passer to the forum.  Passer, its all yours
[12:19] jay: #30    (Link: http://blogshares.com/yabbse/?topic=10076)http://blogshares.com/yabbse/?topic=10076
[12:19] Passer: Thanks Dave
[12:19] Passer: and everyone who turned out
[12:19] Passer: I'm going to go heavily into math, but theory, not numbers, so hang on for the ride and it will make sense, I promise.
[12:20] Passer: The main issue, as I saw it was to make share play and idea play balance...not 'ideally', not with constant adjustments, but automatically.
[12:20] Passer: To do that we have to face one gigantic hurdle in the present system.  Share play is linear...you stuff cash in and you get (hopefully) 7 times the cash out...but there is a limit to how much cash you can feed through it.
[12:20] Passer: Ideas are geometric, you stuff in cash and it multiplies.  You stuff in more cash and it multiplies too.  No matter how you 'set' it, it will always eventually surpass share play.
[12:20] Passer: That's the math...understanding geometric versus linear expansion, and recognizing that it can't work.
[12:21] Passer: See...simple.
[12:21] Passer: So I didn't add a few factors, I scrapped it.  My system directly ties idea values, overall, to the player wealth in the game.  Basically every time you push shares and generate cash you will increase the pressure on idea prices to rise.  Always.  Forever.
[12:21] Passer: On the other hand...lose your ass and there will be increased pressure for prices to fall, and in the interest of that 'dynamic game play' that we talk about there should be opportunities to lose your ass.  A mistimed move in the share market can hurt, no reason ideas should be foolproof.
[12:22] Passer: Basically, once the system is implemented and has some time to smooth out, about half the value in the game will be in ideas.
[12:23] Passer: In designing a new system the first thing I looked at was 'rarity', and I pursued it a lot of ways.  The number of blogs is what we use now, and it is deceptive.  If an industry has forty blogs, and I reindex them all every day, how long are the ideas really going to be 'rare'?
[12:23] Passer: So I used the actual number of ideas in existence, compared to the number being produced in the cycle.  Small 'drops' might cause a downshift in price that maybe 'shouldn't happen', and a huge drop might drive price up when it 'should' be topped out...
[12:23] Passer: but in the long run the average drop will carry the day, and an industry where ideas are really common will go down and where ideas are actually rare the price will go up.
[12:23] Passer: Problem...ideas in all industries eventually become common...solution...consume ideas
[12:24] Passer: If the price is dropping people will sell, so if ideas are on the market have the drop consume them instead of producing.  As the total ideas drops through cosumption the pressure driving price down is removed...
[12:24] Passer: A price cycle.
[12:24] Passer: So buy low, sell high.
[12:24] *** lettiwootan has joined #summit.
[12:24] Passer: Make profits.
[12:24] Passer: Now, that sounds easy, but each and every industry generates a unique pattern of drops, and is at a unique point of market saturation, so EVERY industry will respond uniquely.  So good luck, and do your research.
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[12:25] Passer: Before we go to questions I want to briefly address the impact on the server.  Part of that unique signature of an industry is the pattern of drops, and the effect comes in here:
[12:25] Passer: Only ideas in the actual drop go through the calculation, not 5000+ industries every fifteen minute cycle.  Industries with few blogs have few drops, they will be 'safe' long term investments.
[12:25] Passer: Industries with huge numbers of blogs appear in most drops, they will be very dynamic.
[12:26] Passer: But bottom line, putting a hundred industries through each cycle is a lot lighter load than the current 5000+
[12:26] Passer: and growing.
[12:27] Passer: Now I'm no coder, but cutting iterations of a loop by 98% seems good on its face.
[12:27] Passer: So with that I'll be open to questions...
[12:28] IslandDave: Please     /notice mrpilot Q     to ask a question or make a comment
[12:28] *** Mode change "+v KingGucciArmaniII" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:28] KingGucciArmaniII: Do you think there will be two prices in your system as there are today, the market
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[12:28] KingGucciArmaniII: price for fresh ideas and the "real" price that these ideas will fetch in the bond 
[12:28] KingGucciArmaniII: market. Is there some way to unite these two?
[12:28] *** lettiwootan has signed off IRC (Quit: lettiwootan).
[12:29] KingGucciArmaniII: I have a follow up question.
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[12:29] Passer: Well, the bond market is strictly determined by players, who can (and do) do whatever they want...
[12:29] KingGucciArmaniII: Wouldn't it be useful to know which industries are currently fashionable/desireable?
[12:30] Passer: but by increasing the dynamics of the idea market I expect bond play will get very interesting
[12:30] *** flue has signed off IRC (Connection reset by peer).
[12:30] KingGucciArmaniII: I mean "Iraq" ideas might not be desirable today, but "Snowboarding" are in high demand.
[12:30] Passer: it would be useful...like I said, research...but basically the most desirable ideas will be ideas with few in existence relative to the size of the drops
[12:31] KingGucciArmaniII: i thin buffy ideas are always desirable, even though the series no longer runs.
[12:31] KingGucciArmaniII: end
[12:31] *** Mode change "-v KingGucciArmaniII" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:31] *** Mode change "+v kucinichworldpeace" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:32] Passer: sorry I answered in the middle of your questions
[12:32] Passer: I hope I answered anyway
[12:32] Passer: next?
[12:32] kucinichworldpeace:  
[12:33] * MrPilot checks the level on the microphone
[12:33] * SubWolf twiddles knobs
[12:33] * JustJames ooogles
[12:33] Passer: thanks MrP, I was afraid I'd gone deaf
[12:34] *** HalSpacejock has signed off IRC (Quit: HalSpacejock).
[12:34] IslandDave: Think he's having network issues
[12:34] *** Mode change "-v kucinichworldpeace" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:34] kucinichworldpeace: test
[12:34] *** Mode change "+v JimW" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:34] kucinichworldpeace: ok
[12:34] MrPilot: go ahead kwp
[12:35] JimW: voice him
[12:35] *** Mode change "+v kucinichworldpeace" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:36] kucinichworldpeace: one of my concerns is that premium reindexing will create more of a have/have not system than already exists
[12:36] kucinichworldpeace: reindexing strategically 40x or 1x per day to affect prices, e.g.
[12:37] kucinichworldpeace: any thoughts?
[12:37] kucinichworldpeace: end
[12:37] *** Mode change "-v kucinichworldpeace" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:37] Passer: well, reindexing is a two edged sword...by reindexing you force drops, which gives you a chance to grab ideas...
[12:37] Passer: but it pushes up the ideas in existence faster, which turns price down sooner
[12:37] Passer: yes there will be strategies
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[12:38] *** BeverlyShaw is now known as Beverly.
[12:38] Passer: if I reindex each blog in 'star trek' one at a time throughout the day it will make little drops and drive price down
[12:38] Passer: while you might want to reindex them all and make one big drop
[12:39] Passer: strategies will come and go
[12:39] *** WryenLuveau has signed off IRC (Quit: Blogshares: IslandDave smells funny.).
[12:39] Passer: but the overall number of ideas in existence will eventually carry the day
[12:39] IslandDave: I assure you its the garlic
[12:39] IslandDave: (sorry)
[12:40] SubWolf: ...
[12:40] Passer: did that answer the question?
[12:40] kucinichworldpeace: I guess the thrust is that premiums gain an additional benefit by being able to affect pricing via reindexes
[12:41] kucinichworldpeace: non premium players lose out again
[12:41] Passer: well, currently reindexing give premium players access to ideas
[12:42] kucinichworldpeace: on the open markert
[12:42] Passer: there will always be advantages to premium play
[12:42] kucinichworldpeace: yes
[12:42] Passer: that's why it's premium
[12:42] Passer: not 'pay to be disadvantaged'
[12:43] kucinichworldpeace: more incentive to pony up. end
[12:43] JimW: Hey, long time listener, first time caller...
[12:43] Passer: hey!
[12:43] JimW: So, if only ideas that produce change in price, a rare industry that never produces will never change in price?
[12:43] Passer: never...as in...it has no blogs?
[12:44] Passer: I call that dead....same as cash
[12:44] JimW: Has blogs, but they don't produce.
[12:44] Passer: they will never change
[12:44] JimW: ok.
[12:44] JimW: end
[12:44] *** Mode change "-v JimW" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:44] *** Mode change "+v GrawlinG" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:45] GrawlinG: okay first thing thanks for let me now this :)
[12:45] GrawlinG: <Passer> So I didn't add a few factors, I scrapped it.  My system directly ties idea values, overall, to the player wealth in the game.  Basically every time you push shares and generate cash you will increase the pressure on idea prices to rise.  Always.  Forever.
[12:45] GrawlinG: second... this reindex its a proposel or its already on use in the game?
[12:46] Passer: reindexing exists
[12:46] GrawlinG: Because i think its a nice way to generate ideas.
[12:46] Passer: that it is
[12:46] GrawlinG: oh i didn't know that.. okay its all for now htnaks :)
[12:46] GrawlinG: end
[12:46] *** Mode change "-v GrawlinG" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:47] *** Mode change "+v BW" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:47] Passer: yw, thanks for taking time to attend
[12:47] BW: It would seem that this system would create some extreme volatility in price changes.  Do you think it is possible for the average player to research and predict potential price changes and make good investment decisions?
[12:47] BW: End
[12:47] *** Mode change "-v BW" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:47] Passer: good question
[12:47] Passer: there's a lot of volatility on the front end
[12:48] Passer: because a lot of industries are in a severe bloated condition
[12:48] Passer: but once the dust settles I think simple observation will actually serve well
[12:49] *** Mode change "+v KingGucciArmaniII" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:49] Passer: there will not be a logical way to say...'this will go up next drop'...
[12:49] KingGucciArmaniII: Lets say for example I have a preponderance of say "technology" ideas, say I have a billion or so. Say I've cornered the market.  Do technology ideas become worthless just because I think "tech" is cool and want to own all of them even if the price is ".0001"?  Also, I propose a means of consumption of ideas...
[12:49] Passer: but I think it will be clear what is trending up and what is trending down
[12:49] KingGucciArmaniII: Say one was required to have 100 ideas in an industry to prime an artifact for use.
[12:50] KingGucciArmaniII: end
[12:50] Passer: as a one facet proposal the priming of artefacts is useful...
[12:50] KingGucciArmaniII: say 100,000 to do a hostile takeover.
[12:51] Passer: to consume ideas is actually easy if people are driven towards profits, since ideas on the market will be consumed...
[12:51] Passer: in the case you cite...where someone is willing to ride them to the ground, there is actually a floor
[12:51] KingGucciArmaniII: i see,  but the public market recently has been no place to sell ideas at a profit.
[12:52] Passer: at .25 the ideas become 'obsolete' and effectively a new industry is created with 'revolutionary new ideas'
[12:52] KingGucciArmaniII: eh?
[12:52] Passer: say someone owns a bunch of ideas and stops playing...
[12:53] *** BrunhildeEsterhazy has signed off IRC (Quit: Blogshares: Your blog or mine?).
[12:53] Passer: their portfolio exerts downward pressure on the market forever, and they never sell
[12:53] Passer: the 'revolution' eliminates their downward pressure by removing their obsolete ideas
[12:54] KingGucciArmaniII: is this in your proposal or the game as it is now? Never heard of ideas getting obsoleted at .25 before.
[12:54] Passer: and gives those who are playing a 'new' industry
[12:54] Passer: everything I say is from my proposal, and it has very little in common with current idea pricing
[12:55] Passer: the 'revolutionary new idea' is in there specifically to address the situation you described
[12:56] Passer: thanks for recognizing the potential problem
[12:56] *** Mode change "-v KingGucciArmaniII" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[12:57] * MrPilot sets mode: +v IslandDave
[12:57] Passer: it's the paragraph that starts 'limiting the opposite case...'
[12:57] IslandDave: One of the problems we've discussed before deals with the effects of the spider rates on production
[12:57] IslandDave: spiders currently run through about 3-5K blogs per hour
[12:58] IslandDave: We're hoping to improve that asap, which could double or triple production
[12:58] IslandDave: what effects would this have on the algo, and how can we address the effects?
[12:59] Passer: okay...initially double or triple production means bigger drops, so pressure for price increases goes up dramatically...
[12:59] Passer: boom market...
[13:00] Passer: in the actual equation there is an adjustment on each of the three terms...
[13:00] Passer: I would suggest 'turning down' the up pressure term when the spider speed is boosted...
[13:01] Passer: and gradually bringing it back up
[13:01] IslandDave: ok, excellent thanks
[13:01] IslandDave: end
[13:01] * MrPilot sets mode: -v IslandDave
[13:01] *** Mode change "+v BW" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[13:01] Passer: same effect can be achieved by dialing up the 'down pressure terms
[13:01] BW: My concern is that we are not just talking about a player managing 10-20 industries but potentially dozens or 100’s in order to get a significant amount invested for a good return.  It will not be an easy task to manage those in a volatile market.
[13:01] BW: And a comment on the prior question
[13:02] Passer: yes?
[13:02] BW: More blogs being indexed will probably mean more drops but smaller drops in my opinion.  Not a boom but a drop.
[13:02] Passer: could be
[13:03] Passer: that is outside my understanding
[13:03] Passer: as to the concern...
[13:03] Passer: there are literally thousands of industries, and yes some will be extremely volatile...
[13:04] Passer: for 'ease of management' one would probably stay away from those
[13:04] Passer: but there are a lot to choose from
[13:04] Passer: hint:
[13:05] *** MiniChate has left #summit.
[13:05] Passer: don't invest heavily in revolutionary new internet ideas and come back two weeks later to see what happened
[13:05] *** Mode change "-v BW" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[13:05] IslandDave: answering the smaller v larger drops: faster spider rates would increase the production amounts of common and near-common industries,  have less impact on the near-common / near-rare gradually tapering off have almost no impact on the very rarest of industries.
[13:06] *** Mode change "+v KingGucciArmaniII" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[13:06] Passer: thanx
[13:06] KingGucciArmaniII: Would artifact usage "Industry Buzz" or "Industry Slump" affect prices in your or kwp's scheme? Would it make sense to sell a ton of ideas at the market at cheap prices in order to raise the price of the remaining ideas be a useful strategy?
[13:06] Passer: okay...
[13:06] KingGucciArmaniII: Would it make sense to send out a warning to players whose ideas are about to be obsoleted?
[13:06] KingGucciArmaniII: end
[13:07] Passer: buzz and slump are share play, and I did not consider them at all
[13:07] Passer: selling so ideas get consumed may have some value as a strategy, depends on a whole lot of other factors
[13:08] Passer: ideas get obsoleted at 25 cents....sort portfolio by price should notify the active players well enough
[13:09] Passer: and inactive players will lose a quarter
[13:09] Passer: rather than just ride the quarter down to a penny
[13:09] KingGucciArmaniII: I'd prefer to ride them down to a millicent.
[13:09] Passer: good questions
[13:09] *** Mode change "-v KingGucciArmaniII" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[13:09] Passer: lol
[13:10] IslandDave: OK, that will wrap up this Q&A.  Well done Passer, and thank you! Great questions again
[13:10] Passer: I'm a bit to profit oriented for that
[13:10] Passer: thanks all
[13:10] jay: #31    (Link: http://blogshares.com/yabbse/?topic=767.msg5510)http://blogshares.com/yabbse/?topic=767.msg5510
[13:10] IslandDave: Looks like we have well exceeded our estimated time, so let me get onto this next section quickly
[13:10] IslandDave: In June 2004, the BlogShares Math Team was chartered, tasked with "controlling the workings of the game by changing the code and expanding the player rules."
[13:11] jay: RepublicanVet@gmail.com
[13:11] jay: Message:
[13:11] jay: I purchased a premium account for Blogshares last Sunday and I still have no premium account. My payment cleared through paypa
[13:11] jay: l. What gives?
[13:11] IslandDave: Unfortunately, the Math Team never came together in a productive sense, and excepting the solo work performed by Alan Dean in game functionality and Idea math, never lived up to its potential.
[13:11] jay: eep, sorry mispaste
[13:11] IslandDave: LOL
[13:11] IslandDave: err
[13:11] SubWolf: ROFL
[13:11] IslandDave: The legislative functions returned to the Admininstration, and eventually, the Math Team was quietly disbanded in the Fall of 2005.
[13:11] JustJames: you go boy!
[13:11] IslandDave: The Game Improvement Commission (GIC) does more than just take the place of the Math Team.
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[13:11] IslandDave: Algorithms are only one aspect of many responsibilities.
[13:12] IslandDave: The GIC will also be proactive in enhancing BlogShares competition by researching, analyzing, and reporting on aspects of the game economy, as well as creating and administering new competitions and contests.
[13:12] IslandDave: The efforts made by this group are to improve the game and its community, and to ensure that both remain fun and enjoyable for the players.
[13:12] IslandDave: The GIC will have 3 main Task Groups, which you can read in the GIC charter at link #34
[13:13] IslandDave: It is my pleasure to introduce the charter members of the GIC.
[13:13] IslandDave: Bruce Wayne (Link: http://blogshares.com/user.php?id=24559)http://blogshares.com/user.php?id=24559
[13:13] * usrbingeek is away: sleeping
[13:13] IslandDave: tengrrl (Link: http://blogshares.com/user.php?id=29311)http://blogshares.com/user.php?id=29311
[13:13] IslandDave: and
[13:13] IslandDave: Passer (Link: http://blogshares.com/user.php?id=29337)http://blogshares.com/user.php?id=29337
[13:13] *** usrbingeek has left #summit.
[13:13] IslandDave: There are still two to four positions available on the GIC.  Admin will meet with GIC members over the next few days to decide whom to invite, 
[13:14] IslandDave: but anyone who is seriously interested, has been in BlogShares for at least six months, and is willing to kick in a few hours each week as you can to serve on the GIC, please message me on B$ or the forum with your details.
[13:14] IslandDave: There will certainly be vacancies to fill or additional spots opening up for new GIC members in the future as well.
[13:14] IslandDave: Active participation in GIC activities, such as contests or discussions, will be an advantage for players seeking a position on the team.
[13:15] IslandDave: Now, if anyone would like to ask questions on the GIC or any other subject, please /notice mrpilot  Q now.
[13:15] IslandDave: and for those about to take off, thank you for joining us.  I am overwhelmed by the turnout tonight
[13:15] MrPilot: Yes, thank you all so very much for attending tonight.
[13:16] jay: is it contest time?
[13:16] JustJames: Ditto from the James'o
[13:16] SubWolf: Did you get the script working?
[13:16] jay: pfft
[13:16] IslandDave: any questions?
[13:17] Passer: I have a question for Jay, but it's off topic
[13:17] jay: shoot
[13:17] Passer: where's my chips?
[13:17] Passer: :)
[13:17] jay: what's your uid
[13:18] jay: and how many was that
[13:18] Passer: for the phone voice gig
[13:18] *** Mode change "-m" for channel #summit by SubWolf.
[13:18] IslandDave: please, ask freely
[13:18] jay: everybody can talk now
[13:18] RonWilliams: what contest?
[13:18] MrPilot: RonWilliams has a question
[13:18] SubWolf: Jay has a contest script.
[13:18] jay: we're faking it
[13:18] * tengrrl leads the crowd in applause for all the presenters
[13:18] JimW: w00t
[13:18] Passer: 29337...and I'm trying to get 80K chips for raffle tix at the moment
[13:18] JimW: Good job all...
[13:18] IslandDave: LOL
[13:19] IslandDave: thanks jim
[13:19] JustJames: jay does good work
[13:19] SubWolf: WE DO NOT DO GOOD WORK! :x
[13:19] JustJames: LOL
[13:19] kucinichworldpeace: congrats to the game imnprovers
[13:19] JustJames: oh sorry.. Rob does good work
[13:19] JimW: ok, Rob, thanks for your crappy work.
[13:19] * SubWolf smacks JimW
[13:19] mysidia: Work? Oh no... not the W word :)
[13:19] JimW: Wassup my...
[13:19] JimW: Er...
[13:19] JimW: Hmmm.
[13:19] SubWolf: SO....... How was it?
[13:20] * Mina is posting all this in the official record
[13:20] JimW: informative.  ;)
[13:20] *** FriendlyWholesale has signed off IRC (Quit: Blogshares: We're full of B$).
[13:20] Laila: May I ask please?  Don't you have any plans of  removing transaction fees?
[13:20] mysidia: Nice
[13:20] SubWolf: Depends.
[13:20] Mina: you're wearing diapers?
[13:20] *** Mode change "+U" for channel #summit by MrPilot.
[13:20] JustJames: o.O
[13:20] Passer: for what it's worth, in my system they are irrelevent
[13:21] jay: passer, done
[13:21] JustJames: :)
[13:21] KingGucciArmaniII: 23
[13:21] jay: but you have to put them all in the raffle
[13:21] jay: and lose
[13:21] RonWilliams: another question from me.........are there any plans for server upgrades? i do my part, i'm a paid subscriber, but it would be nice to see B$ faster
[13:21] jay: ok maybe not lose
[13:21] Passer: lol...ya never get what ya don't ask for
[13:22] KebraNagast: blogshares has gotten faster in the recent past
[13:22] jay: hardware doesn't matter as much as algorithm efficiency
[13:22] tengrrl: i told him he could just transfer all his money to me and i'd buy him an einstein
[13:22] KebraNagast: from what I can tell
[13:22] JustJames: exactly. efficiency is key.
[13:22] jay: rob's rewiring is what speeds things up
[13:22] Beverly: man..  I am never gonna win that raffle
[13:22] Beverly: LOL
[13:22] KingGucciArmaniII:  could somebody send me 25 Billion B$, I seem to have lost my wallet.
[13:22] *** andika has signed off IRC (Ping timeout).
[13:22] JustJames: KGA, righttttt
[13:22] JustJames: heh
[13:22] IslandDave: we've weeded out quite a few bottlenecks in the last week or two, and we have some more planned to help lighten db loads on the site
[13:23] RonWilliams: good to hear
[13:23] jay: CONTEST - answer with "![uiserid] [answer]"
[13:23] KingGucciArmaniII: thanks to Kebra
[13:23] KingGucciArmaniII: Kebra have you seen my wallet?
[13:23] RonWilliams: i have noticed the increases, but still is slow during what i would consider the high traffic hours
[13:24] KebraNagast: I think I found your wallet
[13:24] jay: QUESTION [200 chips]: Name the California death row inmate whose execution was postponed indefinitely today.
[13:24] KingGucciArmaniII: didn't like that one anyway, you go ahead and keep it.
[13:24] Passer: old guy
[13:24] Passer: um
[13:24] tengrrl: !29311 Michael Morales
[13:24] sarabear: the guy wouldn't do the anesthesia
[13:24] Passer: yeah him
[13:25] Mina: Michael Angelo Morale
[13:25] Mina: s
[13:25] sarabear: and he made it past the deadline
[13:25] Mina: lol too slow- editing
[13:25] IslandDave:  !winner: 29311
[13:25] KingGucciArmaniII: is that not-winner.
[13:25] tengrrl: I want to thank my family, my friends who helped me get here, and mostly
[13:25] tengrrl: google
[13:25] Passer: my odds are about 1 in 1
[13:25] jay: awarded
[13:25] RonWilliams: gotta love google
[13:25] IslandDave: doubly...hehe
[13:26] tengrrl: to the people who said i couldn't do it, pfffft
[13:26] KingGucciArmaniII: !winner: 11190
[13:26] Passer: hey BW are you registered for PM?
[13:27] RonWilliams: when are the questions given?
[13:27] tengrrl: what questions?
[13:27] KingGucciArmaniII: did the ideas drop yet?
[13:27] IslandDave: when jay thinks of one :)
[13:27] kucinichworldpeace: 'night all
[13:27] RonWilliams: oh
[13:28] JustJames: gnite kwp
[13:28] JustJames: thx again
[13:28] IslandDave: gnight kwp, thanks again!
[13:28] JustJames: jinx!
[13:28] Amadeus: good night KWP
[13:28] BW: Passer - Yes
[13:28] IslandDave:   !QUESTION What Pink Floyd album was supposedly inspired by former band member Syd Barrett?
[13:29] KingGucciArmaniII: Ummagumma
[13:29] Passer: the wall
[13:29] JimW: !16110 Dark Side of the moon
[13:29] Passer: I win
[13:29] kucinichworldpeace: 17723 wish you were here
[13:29] KingGucciArmaniII: A saucer full of secrets
[13:29] IslandDave:  !winner  17723
[13:29] RonWilliams: hmm
[13:29] kucinichworldpeace: shine on you crazy diamond
[13:29] * SubWolf loves the album "Wish You Were Here"
[13:30] tengrrl: !29311 Yellow Submarine
[13:30] KingGucciArmaniII: careful with that axe eugene
[13:30] JimW: Freebird!
[13:30] SubWolf: [NP: Pink Floyd / Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Part One) / Wish You Were Here / 186Kbps / 44KHz]
[13:30] IslandDave:  !Question Name the team that beat the US Men's Hockey team on Tuesday
[13:30] *** Beverly has signed off IRC (Quit: Blogshares: In association with wyldryde.org!).
[13:30] MrPilot: !8832 Russia
[13:30] KingGucciArmaniII: Italy
[13:30] RonWilliams: !34907 russia
[13:30] JustJames: !1837 A better team
[13:30] IslandDave:  !winner 8832
[13:31] *** kucinichworldpeace has signed off IRC (Connection reset by peer).
[13:31] MrPilot: whoo
[13:31] JustJames: LOL
[13:31] RonWilliams: darn it!
[13:31] * JustJames is tired.
[13:31] JustJames: heh
[13:31] RonWilliams: well, that was some quick replies
[13:32] IslandDave:  !Question Who is currently the #1 player in BlogShares?
[13:32] KingGucciArmaniII: !11190 Me
[13:32] woody: M1
[13:32] KingGucciArmaniII: !11190 M1
[13:32] IslandDave:  !winner 11190
[13:32] *** RWO has left #summit.
[13:32] KingGucciArmaniII: whoo
[13:32] IslandDave: sorry, gotta give me a userid
[13:32] woody: !
[13:32] woody: :D
[13:32] *** [ID]Ramskie has signed off IRC (Quit: Blogshares: No smiles here, only sh1t-eating grins.).
[13:32] RonWilliams: !34907 26916
[13:33] JustJames: heh
[13:33] IslandDave:  !Question What is the current most expensive Industry Idea?
[13:34] woody: Gaelic FOotball
[13:34] *** Amadeus has signed off IRC (Quit: Blogshares: All yours for the p00p1ng.).
[13:34] KingGucciArmaniII: !11190 Gaelic Football
[13:34] Laila: Many thanks to all of you... have a great time and God bless....
[13:34] RonWilliams: !34907 google
[13:34] IslandDave: Gnight laila, thanks for coming